Oct 09 – Picardo: “Spain Has Nothing To Gain With These Repeated Incursions”
YGTV took the chance to speak to the Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, straight after yesterday’s address to the United Nations’ Fourth Committee.
YGTV: Has there been any progress since the address to the Committee of 24 earlier in June?
Fabian Picardo: Once again, this highlights that the Fourth Committee is the place where we need to come to talk not just about issues that relate to delisting but where we can potentially defend issues that relate to our sovereignty. The Spanish argument is based on the idea that the presence of Gibraltar is an attack on its territorial integrity and what we have been able to raise in the Fourth Committee are the attacks that we are suffering on our sovereignty and territorial integrity. What we have done is update the Committee on the most topical development which was last weekend’s incursions. Will there be progress? Well, we won’t know what the result will be but I would put money on there being a consensus decision agreed between the UK and Spain and not a decision from the Committee that Gibraltar is right and that Spain’s claim should be thrown out. But, one day, I am confident that we will reach that final conclusion.
YGTV: The focus was very much on the incursions – is this something that’s increasingly worrying?
FP: It’s not worrying, and people must not worry that the incursions have any effect on the sovereignty of BGTW. However many incursions there are, they are a waste of time and diesel. BGTW are as British before, during and after an incursion as they always have been – Spain is achieving nothing. These notes verbales that the UK sends Spain (and that so many of us in Gibraltar have very little regard for because they do not stop a vessel from coming in again next week) are actually a hugely important part of the architecture of international law. By continuing to make those protests, we ensure that these incursions mean nothing – if we didn’t protest, then we could have a course of dealings that affects our sovereignty. So, in answer to your question, there is nothing that is worrying about the incursions other than that they are a nuisance, they are contrary to our territorial integrity, contrary to the rules of international law, they distract our law enforcement officials from being able to work together to stop international crime and, of course, they cause a risk to life when they involve vessels crashing into each other.
YGTV: You called for more robust action to tackle the incursions – can you give any more details?
FP: I can’t tell you what I think is in the armoury that has not yet been used so that the Spaniards could try and take steps to avoid that diplomatic weapon being deployed. I am only suggesting that we should invoke robust and more effective diplomatic tools; I’m not for one moment suggesting that we should physically do anything that would involve upping the ante in any way. I think there is still a long road for diplomacy to work here and we must all wish diplomacy to be the avenue that leads us out of this impasse with Spain. This should be what demonstrates to Spain that there is nothing to be gained with these repeated incursions.
YGTV: Might legal action be an option? At what point do you say “Enough is enough”?
FP: Legal action is not a final option unless both sides agree to it. If both parties do not agree to go to the court to set terms of reference, there is nothing that the court can do. In that sense, what I’ve reflected to the Committee is the statement by Mr Margallo in December of last year where he revealed that Spain has advice that she would lose in the International Court of Justice. One of the Spanish ambassadors to the UN revealed that ambassadors here knew that they were making a futile case because the advice they had was that the waters around Gibraltar were British and could never be Spanish. It wasn’t a great revelation but it was interesting to hear it from the lips of Mr Margallo in particular who, as we know, has been the architect of the increase in hostility since the PP won the elections.
YGTV: Six students have come over to listen to the addresses – what’s the significance of this for Gibraltar’s younger generation?
FP: It’s been our position since we were in Opposition that we should bring young generations of Gibraltarians to these institutions so that they understand their workings. In my view, these could very well be the lawyers, politicians or professionals of the future who might be involved with these institutions on behalf of Gibraltar. There are people working in the UN and the European Commission of all nationalities – it might well be that we have UN civil servants of the future here or simply people who will spread the word of what happens here.
Check out the Chief Minister's speech in full here.
